‘Third-term & I’
— Ambassador Greg Mbadiwe, architect of the tenure elongation controversy
By Amaechi Dike, Abuja

You started this whole controversy over tenure elonga-tion when at the National Political Reform Conference last year, you canvassed for additional two years for President Obasanjo. Looking at the unfolding events in the country regarding the third term agenda, how do you feel now?

I am indeed very delighted about the development. Ever since the National Political Reform Conference, so much else has happened. But it’s all good for the country and the well-being of Nigerians because we had over the years agreed that so many things were wrong with the 1999 Constitution. As at the time when the constitution came it was expedient because the Military was in a hurry to give up power, having come face to face with a lot of pressure, civil pressure from the Nigerian populace as it were. And they were in a hurry to get off, so they put together, hurriedly, a document which they called the 1999 Constitution, which we are operating till now. But it was obvious that a lot was wrong with that document. The Obasanjo administration in executing its reform agenda, eventually arrived at the need for political reform which, given the timing, appeared to be the final stage of his reforms, having gone through image repair reform, gone through economic reform and indeed, some social reform engineering had also been done; and so we arrived at this important political reform.

At the conference, yes I did speak about tenure elongation. But I did so conscious of the fact that we were at that conference to fashion out a new Nigeria. We had seen the Obasanjo administration perform and it is manifestly clear that this is an administration that is focused; this is an administration whose orientation is anchored on a re-engineering and restructuring of this entity called Nigeria, to bring it back to its enviable position. And in the various spheres that it has mapped out of itself it has succeeded. It has already succeeded in re-engineering our image such that today we are back to the position of respectability in the comity of nations. It has also gone ahead to do economic reforms which are beginning to yield a lot of benefits to Nigeria, including debt relief. Today, we are a debt-free nation - we are owing nobody and it is good to emphasise this point because it sounds as if it was achieved easily. But you know that this issue had bogged down the development of this nation economically over the years. Indeed, it had reached to a point where we could no longer pay for our imports and the foreign exchange parity, between the naira and other currencies throughout the world was constantly on the drop. It made planning for the economy, the industries and so on very difficult.

It was unpredictable but today with all the efforts of the present administration, particularly President Obasanjo himself, we have achieved this debt relief. Therefore, we can even today shout uhuru, that as from this month (May) we can plan better and of course, we can begin immediately to see the impact of being a debt-free nation and we believe that this will impact positively on our development policies. And also policies that touch on the welfare and the well-being of Nigerians, so I believe like the President has said several times, Nigerians will start to witness prosperity in the shortest possible time now. We need to thank Nigerians also for the support they have given the administration, the support they have given Obasanjo to be able to achieve these feats, given the number of problems he has faced at home, of which it has become apparent to some of us that perhaps when he was busy doing his own part of the job – which was to rebuild the image of the country and leaving the economy to some of his other lieutenants, these lieutenants sabotaged that effort in an effort to discredit him in order for them to take over from him. But as God would have it, it was not to be. He has been able to finish his own aspect of the assignment which was to rebuild the image of Nigeria and have enough time to turn around and ask! “What is happening in the economy?” and found out that the economy was being sabotaged and was able to take direct charge of it as well. And today we are witnessing a convergence between the image repair and the economic repair, all coming together at the same time. Therefore, we must have to thank him. And also to inform Nigerians and those whose singular aim, for their own selfish interest, has been to sabotage these efforts, that we are fully aware of this. But, of course, the God that created Nigeria loves Nigeria and that God is greater than any one of them and today we are able to overcome all these games that they were playing with us.

On the issue of tenure elongation, it was based on all these that I said listen, Nigeria has been traumatized over the years; we have suffered all kinds of things, including pariah status, we have had political turbulences, we have had civil unrests here and there. Indeed, we have had also in the past a civil war. Today, it seems like we have a government which is addressing most of these problems and that is why I called that we should find a way to give an extension to this administration so that it may conclude this assignments. The interest of the country as a whole is greater than any individual or section. And, therefore, since we have seen it and it is manifestly obvious to everybody that this administration is doing a good job, we should also find a way to let them stay there and do the job. Particularly against the backdrop that the constitution that we were operating did not cover all the areas and all the interests that need to be addressed.

The truth of the matter is that, whether this constitution is amended today or sometime in the future, it is inevitable that this constitution must be amended to address the myriads problems that Nigeria is witnessing in trying to bring itself together as one united entity and therefore, one day, a National Assembly must rise up to amend this constitution. The ball is in the court of this National Assembly to take on this historic initiative.

When you made your proposal at the National Conference it was for just a two-year extension of the tenure of the present administration. But today the debate is about another term of four years. Was this what you had in mind when you made your proposition?

Yes, I guess that basically from the benefit of first an ordinary Nigerian citizen looking at events, I came up with the two-year proposal – to add two years to the existing four and make it six years and let it rotate on a six-yearly basis around Nigeria. But I had made it conscious of the fact that there were some flaws in the workability of that. Because there is nowhere that it is provided for this two-year extension and therefore all the political parties, everybody has to come together to agree on this additional two years because we are not really operating a single party system. There are other interests that must be carried along. So, I was also conscious of its workability.

I guess that Nigerians having seen the need for us to balance this thing and give more time, opted for a third term of four years extra as a more workable way of getting it into the constitution. So, I believe that that is how that must have come up. But I believe also that the intentions have remained the same. We have a government that is working, you don’t change a winning team midstream, you allow it to complete its job – particularly given the fact that this country has gone through a lot.

You talked about not changing a performing team midstream, which appears to be the common refrain of the PDP. But there is also the popular saying that it is not proper to change the goal post in the middle of a game. How do you rationalise the two arguments, given that the existing constitution stipulates two terms of four years each?

Well, the truth of the game is that basically if we go by the fact that what we are operating is a document that was handed over to us by a cabal as a working document and we called it the 1999 constitution; if we agree that the mechanics of the production of a binding charter, the ingredients of a binding charter was not there to give it this efficacy that you are talking about, then you can agree that Nigeria is still changing and every field can still change today. What am I saying?

What I am saying is that the constitution, for it to have the efficacy of rule of law whereby its provisions are adhered to strictly speaking, then it must be a constitution that has been made by the people. It must be a constitution in words and indeed. Today, what we have – and all Nigerians agree to it, that’s why we are back to the National Assembly, is that what we have is a constitution in words. And therefore, technically speaking, there is no hard and fast rule as at now. It is with the new constitution that we are making, which will carry the preamble to the constitution properly, the words: “We the people… have come together to present this document as our constitution”. From then on, every other thing must follow what is stipulated, every other changes addition or subtraction must follow what is stipulated by the document. But today, we agree that the Military hurriedly left the 1999 constitution and that there is a need for us to now fashion it to suit the particular exigencies of this country called Nigeria.

You said in your earlier statement that while President Obasanjo was busy laundering the image of Nigeria, certain persons working with him were busy pillaging the country’s economy. Who are these individuals? Are they not identifiable?

There is absolutely no reason to mention any name because it may not just be an individual; it could be a group of individuals. But what is certain is that those who were charged with the responsibility of rebuilding the economy did less than a good job and almost cost the President his re-election, because I was a member of the re-election campaign organisation. And when we went out there the issue on the ground was the issue of the economy and that nothing had been done in that regard. But it was obvious to us that the economy was left in the hands of some people, whereas the job of rebuilding the image of the country made the President to criss-cross the continents and in fact, incur the wrath of the nation because they saw him as a President who was all the time in the air. But I am happy today that he has been vindicated by what he has been able to achieve. Now, you used the word “pillaging” which I am not too sure about the meaning, because I am not sure I used that word you know, but if it means what I said, then perhaps we can go ahead with it. If they mean what you want them to mean, then may be I should call you to order straight away (laughs). Pillaging? I don’t understand the word pillaging but anyway, what I am trying to say is that the people who were left in charge with the reconstruction of the economy did less than a good job. And, indeed, if we stretch it to our maximum thinking, we may also conclude that perhaps the non performance in the sector may have been deliberate to undermine the good works of the President in order to cause disaffection within the populace and bring him down so that they can rise.

You had also given what seems a sense of urgency in the need for the various zones of the country to have a feel of the presidency (Aso Rock). Do you think that your proposition for tenure elongation for President Obasanjo will facilitate or hinder that desire by the various zones? for instance, the Igbo race and the South-South?

Power is never given. You don’t sit down somewhere and say “it is my turn” and then it becomes your turn. As we (Igbos) stand today we have no hope; whether it is changing hands in 2007 or 2011, there is nothing on the ground today that suggests that the Igbos are going to get it. So, the issue of time is not as important as you think; what is important is that there is a guarantee that every section of this country will one day will get it. That is what cures marginalisation, it is not the speed of taking it. Because from the times of my father (the late K.O Mbadiwe), we have been seeing – at least let’s go back as far back as a majority of Nigerians can remember, let’s not even go back to independence because from independence deals were made between the whole components of Nigeria – the original deals were made at that time but how were the deals and negotiations that brought about this entity at independence been respected? But let’s not even go back that far. Let’s go back to even NPN. From the time of NPN, NPP and so on, the Igbos have constantly said “it’s our turn, it’s our turn” – in fact, the fact that we are constantly saying that it is our turn, it is our turn has also caused us not to make the kind of negotiations that we ought to make which would have lifted us out of the quagmire that we find ourselves. Because you say it is your turn but you have nothing to back it. You ginger the whole East that it is your turn and at the end of the day deals are made between the other components of Nigeria, to your own total exclusion because you are still busy shouting its your turn, its your turn and none of your own people are participating in the deals called Nigeria where things are being worked out. This is the scenario the Igbos have found themselves in. And it arose out of these manipulations that have been going on over the years. Some times you have a democratically elected government and it is about to finish its tenure, the same group of people will now transform into the military and take over the government such that it neutralises that your so-called turn and by the time they stay for some time they blow the whistle for another democratic experiment you start again to shout it is your turn and it goes somewhere else and so on and so forth. This is what we have been witnessing. What is different from what we are saying today is, let us have it entrenched that on a particular date and at a particular time an Igbo man will rise up and receive the crown of the presidency of this country. I think that’s good enough for us and we can go home and continue doing our job. But to leave it in this kind of manner that it is – very fluid without anything and you tell us every time that we should go out and struggle for it, I want to tell you that the Igbos will be struggling for it, we have already struggled for it for the past 40 years; it is likely we keep struggling for it again for the next 40 years. So, believe you me, right now time is not the issue. What is the issue is what day and time do we get it?
The Igbo-man has been good to this country, very very good. The Igbo race today still stands as the only group of persons whose wealth increases arithmetically; what do I mean by that? Through pure, sheer hardwork. He imports a container today, sells the container it takes you two months; you put your principal money and you take out a little part of the profit to eat food, then you add the balance and the capital together and order for two containers and you keep going like that and your wealth increases arithmetically. But I want to assure you that all those whose sections have touched power in the past, their own wealth increases exponentially, and what do I mean by that? I mean geometrically, because they sit down there and say oh my brother is the president and tomorrow you carry a paper and before you know it he/she has one oil block, the next day they are doing this and doing that. That is why the Igbos are crying marginalisation; and that is exactly what the Obasanjo administration is out to cure on a once-and-for all basis. By midwifing a new constitution that guarantees all these rights to every nook and cranny of this country. So, in a nutshell, to answer your question, the issue is not whether it is delaying us. He who is down fears no further fall; we are already down and there is nowhere else we are going to fall to. All we need to do now is to start thinking about how to come up. And how do you come up? Let us get rotation into the constitution and we would have taken the first step forward from coming out of the ground.
But this constitution is being amended seven years into the Obasanjo administration. So, assurances are there that even if president Obasanjo does another four years and goes, that the succeeding administration will not amend it either immediately or towards the end of its tenure in order to also get additional years in office?
It is not possible; why this one has become possible and inevitable and imperative is because it was a document that was handed over to us by a cabal and not the people who made it. The next constitution that is coming is a people – made constitution. Therefore, for you to be able to call us back to sit down again for another amendment and so on, there must be an overriding public interest that is there. Otherwise, nobody is coming back again. You don’t write a constitution very day. But because we are operating with a less than a constitution even though we have it as a constitution in quotes, we are all sitting down together to give it the efficacy of a constitution by amending it. Therefore, there is no calling us back again to come and sit down and do it. If anybody has anything to say now, you better say it now or forever hold your peace. We are going to have a brand new constitution that is made by the people and therefore will be difficult to amend.
The argument appears to be that yes, we agree that our constitution needs to be amended but the people are quarrelling with a particular amendment intended to achieve tenure elongation for the president and state governors. Don’t you see anything wrong with that?
The opposition – and when I say the opposition, the arrow heads of the opposition naturally are those who are angling to take over from the present administration and some sections of the media who don’t want to really sit down and do this calculation. And it’s not fair on Nigeria. The calculation ought to be made; the issue of tenure was also discussed at the public hearing. You heard all the people – even the heads of cultural groups, apart from going beyond the governors, for instance in the South East majority of the governors, three of them spoke in favour of tenure elongation. Then, leadership of the pan-cultural group, the highest Igbo group there spoke in favour and yet when it is reported about the East it is said that the East does not support, how can that be?
When I first mooted the issue of the extension of tenure I quickly got support from, in fact, Imo State simple and short. Imo State is for tenure extension, period. Greg has spoken, the senators have spoken, the Governor has spoken, the leaders have spoken, every nook and cranny of Imo State is saying that President Obasanjo should continue. In fact, I think that the champions and the pioneers should be properly credited to Imo State where it is near hundred per cent. And I want to assure you that this is almost the same everywhere else, so where does the opposition get its statistics? That is what amazes me, you know! I believe that people should be careful not to toy with the feelings of the majority of Nigerians.
We are now busying ourselves on a minor constitutional requirement in a document presented by a cabal to us. And that should now be our guiding philosophy? Where you say, for instance, 80 senators are for but they require 82 and the opposition gets 20 – they needed 19 but get 20 – so they have taken that two that the majority needs then the opposition will go that night and start popping champagne all over Nigeria and now say they have won? When really what they have done is to over-turn the wishes of the majority of Nigerians. How does it work? I look at it as sheer absurdity, but I thank God that the normal political trend, when the swing begins, there is no way that such a slim, if it is that slim, there is no way the opposition can get it. Go and mark my word. If it is that slim that they are hoping that they will get one extra person in order to get the majority to stop the man, in order to get the required votes to stop the majority, I am telling you that the god of politics will not allow that to happen because that will be a simple subversion of the wishes of the majority of Nigerians. If the opposition wants to tell us that their views are so great and that that is what Nigerians want, then it should be the other way round. They should be trying to get that majority we are trying to get to push the amendments through. They should be trying to get that to show us that Nigerians are not in support; not trying to get the minimum required to stop the majority.
There is so much talk about inducement to those who are currently in support of tenure elongation. Did that extend to the Imo people for them to be hundred per cent in support of the third term project?
Well, that is the misfortune of Nigeria all the time. It is the belief, and this is what this present administration is trying to cure. We must get it out of the psyche of Nigerians this issue of bribery and corruption at every level. That is what they think, it has become a major social malaise, such that nothing can be done without this issue of inducement and no-inducement. The government is not going to stop in the discharge of its responsibility simply because you might think this constitutes an inducement or not. They are not going to stop to buy cars for committees, they are not going to stop to build houses for committee hearings or for public officers, they are not going to stop paying allowances to public officers, just because you might think that they are trying to induce you for one thing or the other. What is all this talk that they are inducing the senators? With what? What exactly was anybody induced with? That you bought cars, is that the first time that senators are getting car? Is there any senator in Nigeria today that doesn’t have about five or six or seven cars in his parking lot? What is he going to do with a toy? That you must say it is an inducement – an inducement for what? You understand? This is politics and everybody is playing the politics, it’s just that some people are toying with the destiny of the country. Some are more desirous of bringing and leaving a legacy of a stable and a more united and prosperous country. Others are toying with it; it is as simple as that. And do you know, since it is politics all kinds of mud is being thrown left, right and centre. But inspite of all the flying missiles, mud and so on and so forth, we must still sit down and gather and articulate a proper direction for our people.